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"Whoa,
Colby," responded Vince, "slow down. You've asked enough questions to keep
scholars busy for the next several centuries."
Colby
displayed a sheepish smile. "I told you these concerns have been with me for
awhile."
Vince and
Colby both looked in my direction, as if I were the resident expert on Jung. Shaking my
head, I rebuffed whatever expectations they may have had with: "Don't look at me
fellows, I was just trying to be sociable and hold up my end of the conversation when you
asked me to talk about Jung's approach to myths.
"I
don't know how Jungians would answer any of your questions Colby," I added,
"although I'm sure they have thought about such matters. Quite frankly, more than a
few of the questions mentioned by you have been ricocheting about in my mind for quite
some time as well."
Tammy
Winthrop sort of came to my rescue by diverting attention elsewhere when she said:
"There are some spiritual traditions that speak of a realm or world of symbols and
similitudes which, on the one hand, addresses human beings through the language of dreams,
and, on the other hand, constitutes a dimension apart from the physical/material world
that functions as a way station, of sorts, with a potential for offering the individual
exposure to many different kinds of spiritual or mystical experience.
"These
traditions suggest one can commune with the spirits of prophets and saints in this world
of symbols and similitudes and, as a result, be in a position to acquire, at least
potentially, a great deal of spiritual wisdom and understanding through such encounters.
However, these same spiritual traditions also indicate that individuals can meet up with
other kinds of very powerful entities in this world or realm of symbols and similitudes
which are capable of leading one into spiritual confusion and error.
"When I
compare some of what Jung says about the collective unconscious, especially in the context
of his own harrowing experiences, with what these spiritual traditions relate concerning
the nature of the world of symbols and similitudes, I can't help but wonder if Jung may
have tried to impose the structure of his own psychological theory onto a dimension of
reality that has nothing to do with the collective unconscious or archetypes or completion
of the personality and self, at least in Jung's sense of these ideas. In a very
fundamental way, Jung may have found himself in the middle of something he really didn't
understand and, like most of us, simply tried to make coherent sense of his experiences,
and those of his patients, in a way which was consistent with his philosophical
preferences."
"Couldn't
one," asked Art Carmichael, "raise all of the same kind of questions concerning
this world of symbols and similitudes to which Tammy is referring, that Colby raised in
relation to Jung's theory? For instance, where is this world of symbols and similitudes if
it is not physical or material in nature? Or, how did it come into being? Or, how does one
gain access to it and under what circumstances? Or, why should one feel compelled to
accept a spiritual interpretation of such a realm any more than one should feel compelled
to accept Jung's psychological interpretation of his encounter with what he claimed was
the realm of the collective unconscious?"
"What
I'm about to say may not satisfy you Art," suggested Ben Blake, "but a partial,
albeit general, way of responding to your questions might be along the following lines.
Just as Jung's psychological theories, when compared to that of Freud, provided a much
richer, more complex and nuanced way of looking at the nature of the relationship between
human experience and the character of the reality or realities that helped make such
experiences possible, so too, the realm of spirituality may offer, relative to Jung's
perspective, a much richer, more complex and nuanced way of looking at the relationship
between the spectrum of human experiences and the nature of the reality out of which these
experiences arise.
"Whether
we are psychologists, or philosophers or mystics or scientists, we all are involved, more
or less, in the same kind of quest. We all are trying to find out what the relationship is
between our experiences and the structural character of the dynamics, processes, events
and so on of the dimensions of reality that help make our experiences possible and help
lend to those experiences certain kinds of differential character under various
circumstances.
"Deep
down, I believe few, if any, of us wants to read something into experience or reality that
doesn't belong there. On the other hand, I also feel few people have a desire to exclude
anything from, or read something out of, the book of reality when such things do belong
there.
"All of
our methodologies, techniques, instruments, procedures, tests, questions and critical
analyses are intended to try to discover whether our theories, hypotheses, conjectures,
speculations, ideas, and so on, give accurate expression to, or are reflective of, our
experiences, both individual and collectively. Moreover, whether we are professional
investigators or amateur sleuths, we tend to critically reflect on the ways in which other
people describe and explain their experiences as measured against our own experiences and
understanding of those experiences.
"When
discrepancies arise in this process of comparison, we tend to be confronted with a variety
of possibilities. The other person's description or explanation may be problematic in some
way, or our own description and/or explanation may be flawed, or both of our approaches
suffer from certain kinds of difficulties that may be either of a peripheral or essential
nature, or each of our accounts is right in its own way but we are viewing different
aspects of the same phenomenon.
"Jung
agreed with Freud on some issues, especially in relation to the nature of the problems,
challenges and tasks of the first half of the developmental process. However, there were
many aspects of Freudian theory that did not match up well with Jung's own experiences or
the experiences of many of the people Jung was seeing in therapy.
"As a
result, Jung went in search of a set of descriptions and explanations which, hopefully,
would prove to be more satisfying to him, both conceptually and experientially, than
either a purely Freudian or biological account of psychological processes, dynamics and
human possibilities. The collected works of Jung are his response to the questions and
issues that bubbled about inside of him while he struggled to come to grips with what he
believed to be the relationship between the character of human experience and the nature
of the reality in which such experience is rooted and out of which it develops.
"Others
have come along since Jung, and they have undergone a journey of inquiry with respect to
Jung that was similar, in some respects, to the kind of exploration that Jung had
undergone in relation to Freud and other theoreticians or clinicians of Jung's day. Some
of these new kids on the block have operated, to some extent, within a broadly Jungian
framework, but they have seen fit to adjust, modify, alter, eliminate, and de-emphasize
various facets of the original ideas or theories of Jung in order to try to establish a
better fit between their own experiences and the descriptive and explanatory system of
understanding that they use to interpret the possible relationship between one's
experiences and the nature of reality through which those experiences are given
expression.
"Some
of us feel that Jung does not really speak to various dimensions of our experience and/or
understanding of reality. As Tammy suggested, we may be intrigued with this aspect or that
aspect of Jung's framework, and we may experience a certain amount of resonance with many
of the things which he has to say about the implications and ramifications that the search
for meaning carries for issues of identity, the self, human fulfilment, completion of
personality, and individual development.
"Nonetheless,
we also may feel the full potential of human meaning cannot be discovered either through
purely psychological processes, in general, or a Jungian approach to things in particular.
Consequently, we go in search of something that may constitute a better fit between, on
the one hand, our experiences, and, on the other hand, the kind of reality which could
have made such experiences possible.
"Like
David pointed out earlier, Jung was quite opposed to the desires of some people who wished
to borrow the symbols of another culture or mythology and try to import those symbols into
a different mythological tradition or set of social/historical conditions. According to
Jung, this act of transposing symbols constituted a potential source for considerable
distortion, error, and confusion.
"Somewhat
ironically, however, Jung himself may have been guilty of such a process of transposition
by taking spiritual issues out of context and placing them in a purely psychological
framework. In doing this, he may have opened the gates for a great deal of error,
distortion and confusion concerning the nature of the reality or realities to which his
psychological theory of archetypes attempted to make descriptive and explanatory
reference.
"Although
an individual starts out on her or his spiritual journey in the world of forms,
ultimately, spirituality or mysticism points in a direction that transcends the realm of
forms. Therefore, even if one were to grant the existence of Jung's archetypes, they are a
purely formal manifestation of some further dimension of reality and, as such, they do not
address that which lies beyond the mode of communication and understanding that is capable
of being given expression through one's entering into dialogue with these archetypes.
"As has
been said: 'the Tao which can be described is not the Tao'. The principle holds, I
believe, for all mystical journeys.
"The
only real answer, Art, to the extent your questions can be answered in any formal sense,
is to say that one must undertake the spiritual journey and follow it to its logical and
ultimate conclusion. There is no way one can sit back in a rocking chair and think one's
way to an understanding of how, and under what circumstances, one can encounter a world
that is neither of a physical nor material nature, and there is no way one can reason
one's way through what is meant by a realm which transcends forms since reason and logic,
as is true also of concepts and language, are themselves forms that are tied to the
parameters of possibility served by the structural character and properties of such forms.
"Jung
advised individuals who wanted to encounter the realm of archetypes that these people must
do so under the guidance of someone who knew the landscape, potential problems, and ways
of moving about in the regions of the collective unconscious without becoming lost,
confused or overwhelmed. Mystics say something very similar, except they are speaking
about dimensions of reality that are quite different from the psychological realms for
which Jung's theoretical framework is attempting to provide a map.
"One
cannot replicate an experiment from the sidelines. If one wishes to seek to verify
whether, or which parts of, Jung's understanding of things is correct, true, accurate or
tenable, then one must follow, to some extent, in his footsteps. Furthermore, if one
wishes to test the veracity of a mystic's understanding of the relationship between
experience and reality, then one must follow in the footsteps of a mystic.
"Unfortunately,
there is not enough time or energy or resources to go about trying to replicate everyone's
understanding of their experiences. So, we are faced with choices about which paths of
replication and testing we will pursue.
"Our
conception of self, identity, meaning, purpose, fulfilment, harmony, human potential,
truth, reality and so on become a complex function of the choices that we make concerning
what we attempt to replicate or test or validate. Trying to figure out whether we have
chosen wisely or correctly in this regard is what keeps many of us up at night."
A silence
came over the group at this point, as if we were all meditating on what had been said.
Finally, Art suggested that, perhaps, we should take a short break to make phone calls,
run brief errands, get a snack, and/or go to the washroom in whatever order seemed
indicated. We could meet back in the lounge area in, say, twenty or thirty minutes.
The
suggestion was well received by everyone. As a result, we all went off in various
directions.
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| Next - Return Of The Hero |
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